Curse

ShotGunBunny · Jun 02, 2005, 02:51 PM // 14:51

In an earlier post here i summed up some of the things that bothered me most with GW, one of the things that bothered me is the Country vs. Country HoH competition, now Goonter made a pretty swell suggestion that i think everyone should take a look at (especialy Anet)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

I do agree that country vs country isnt a good idea.
Its unfair to some players in areas that dont compete as well and in some cases inspires racisim.
What would have been swell would have been to select a diety in character creation. Newly formed guilds would select a diety too. However, the guilds gods will not change your god. Then when that guild whens HoH, everyone with that selected diety would receve the blessing.
Also if a person wanted to change dieties they could do quest (like secondary class changing quest). But the quest offers no bonus or reward and to change back and forth you would have to do the quest again.
A guild should be able to change its deity too, by some way of challenging the gods or something.

So what do you think about this? Would you rather have this then C vs C?

If you have any other ideas feel free to post 'em of course.

I was actually thinking about simply giving the winning Guild the favor of the gods instead of their entire server, i mean, they won, not the server.

Mimu · Jun 02, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShotGunBunny

I was actually thinking about simply giving the winning Guild the favor of the gods instead of their entire server, i mean, they won, not the server.

Since it is PvP guilds who unlock the favour of the gods, and PvE players who benefit from it..there is no way that would work.

I can see how some people may have problems with the Country V Country side of this game, but I myself am yet to run into anyone openly making racist comments because of it.

However, if it is a problem then changing the names to those of the Guild Wars gods may be a wise decision.

Massassi · Jun 02, 2005, 03:30 PM // 15:30

The Deieties in GW are linked to your class.
Necro / water elemental = Grenth
Warrior/ Fire elemental = Balthazar
Monk/ air elemental = Dwayna
Mesmer = Lissa
Ranger/ earth elemental = Malendru
Replacing Countries with Deieties, though there would be exceptions, would turn PvP into Class versus Class

The country thing is fine as is and I know this might rock your world but not everyone joins guilds or does PvP but they still need the favor of the gods to do special PvE quests. So, it would be wrong to force these people to do HoH just so they can go to the underworld. The countries that don't win favor just need to try harder or suck it up.

DrSLUGFly · Jun 02, 2005, 03:54 PM // 15:54

I love the idea, it makes the gods more important. It would take a pretty big overhaul though, but if it were implemented I'd be pretty thrilled I think.

Chro · Jun 02, 2005, 04:02 PM // 16:02

I believe Country vs Country helps for the server latency a lot, tho I haven't studied gw server architecture but I bet servers are localised in the location of the zones they host, that would be common sense to me at least.

but I 100% agree on the racism part wich is hella sad.
I know it's offtopic but the last patch added language zone separation! and I must say that's an orrible Idee! I know we (europe) got loads of ppls who don't care talking in their own language (especialy french and german)(i speak french) but well we can live with it but now spliting everyone in his own country language zone makes me feel sad.. trying to make europe one big entity in the real world while games tend to split us (u don't know how sad I was when I heard about server localisation on WoW).

sorry for the offtopic'ing

Perishiko ReLLiK · Jun 02, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

I don't really like that, i love the idea of competing country vs country, what i think needs to change, is more responsibility on our side, to stop the racism... instead of laughing at what they say (not saying you do, just replying this way), just tell them not to do it, and if it's in the local channel, you report them... like i stated in a post already that i was starting to do... i really cant stand the racism the way it was, and i plan on making a difference, anybody else can follow, or they can sit back and just complain about it...

I do not find things such as "die koreans" to be racist, i find that to be more of a competative taunt, in which case, i wont report that... calling them dirogative(sp) names is just blatantly moronic, and i don't understand what makes people act in such a way... it really bothers me...

Besides, if these dieties account for certain class, or even just certain guilds... then people would just choose the one that wins the most... i think it would ruin the competition... sorry but it would add too much of a change, i think it works fine the way it is, even tho i dont see euro control it much : (

It's normaly korean all night, and american/sometimes euro during my daytime... heh

DrSLUGFly · Jun 02, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

I probably wouldn't mind it if it was not named after two specific countries, America and Korea. Korean's have a massive hate-on for America (who doesn't these days?) and it seems (I admit this to be speculation and am open to be told I'm wrong) that America is also racist against asian countries (except Japan) and (this part not speculation) way way way over nationalistic. I just feel uncomfortable with being reminded every few minutes that America and Korea (regardless of the nationalities of those actually playing) are against each other. I would like it just as much if the American server was given a fictional name (Ascalon?) and Asia (Lion's Arch?) and Europe (Shiverpeaks?). Then it wouldn't be so bad to see continuously "Ascalon has taken the favor of the gods from Lion's Arch, Lion's Arch must win 5 times to get the... etc. etc."

Perishiko ReLLiK · Jun 02, 2005, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSLUGFly

I probably wouldn't mind it if it was not named after two specific countries, America and Korea. Korean's have a massive hate-on for America (who doesn't these days?) and it seems (I admit this to be speculation and am open to be told I'm wrong) that America is also racist against asian countries (except Japan) and (this part not speculation) way way way over nationalistic. I just feel uncomfortable with being reminded every few minutes that America and Korea (regardless of the nationalities of those actually playing) are against each other. I would like it just as much if the American server was given a fictional name (Ascalon?) and Asia (Lion's Arch?) and Europe (Shiverpeaks?). Then it wouldn't be so bad to see continuously "Ascalon has taken the favor of the gods from Lion's Arch, Lion's Arch must win 5 times to get the... etc. etc."

I don't really think that would help too much, considering we'd all still know the country by its name... it's not hard to pick out the korean language... and well... racism from kids will never stop... even tho i could have sworn that they teach us how to not be racist in those lower grades... maybe i just dont remember right... but i mean, dont they have korean/asian friends... or black friends... or mexican friends... or anything really... how can people be so racist, when surrounded by different races all the time? it actually blows my mind, and i really cant understand it.

Goonter · Jun 02, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Yay, someone liked my idea! :P

As the games story tells, though the deities are believed to repesent the class in GW, the classes are not subject to be loyal to anyone of them or only one of them.

At character creation it would make since that the majority of players would select the diety that fits thier class. But why live with that? By the time you make it to the Temple of Ages you would see and understand the benefit of changing to something else. Thats why its important to make it avalible for players to change.

Imagine it like this:
Korea has won the favor of the god Grenth.
"OMG I love Korea" now I can farm underworld and get the great loot that only underworld could provide. Then I think to myself,...Ive done underworld, I want to do Fissure instead. I change dieties and then:
America has won the favor of the god Balthazar.
In Fissure, there are different challenges and different rewards than found in Underworld that can help and support any class.

As these annoucments are on everyones chat log. A lot of people with the selected deity would hurry to the temple of ages, finding people wouldnt be much more of a hassle. If your in a guild that likes to pve, youve all probably already centralized which deity you serve.

Heres another idea I though would help the idea kick off:
Before each match in pvp the game would roll the number of people that did a favor of the gods pve quest, and by some crazy math that would equate a + whatever moral boost.

This could help do away with that prematch wraith killing bonus quest at Tombs. While its great for a morale boost, even still if no one had to do it, everyone would still be on equal grounds, so its kind of a irritating most.

Next match, the game would roll the number of people that have recently completed it again, ...so on and so forth. Maybe these quest could be unlocked by pvp'ers getting the favor of the gods.
Now we have some synergy. Both types of players are helping each other help themselves. Its a constant, helpful, roleplaying and competitive cycle.

Of course, it would have to open up for quest in to other deities.

Think about this. If this is the way it started do you think people would be complaining, "Favor of the gods needs to be given by country not by deities."?
It would be less likely because the thought wouldnt have entered the imagination. And if you did feel this way and said something about it, you might have been recieved by: "No, its fine just the way it is"
So there will always be differances of opinon. And a lot of times, people arent comfortable with change of any kind.

In the end, I think that this would help and not hurt the game. Unless, Anet has a server infrustruture that makes this impractical. Then, oh well, thats that. Maybe something else would work,...or maybe nothing at all.
But if not, it wouldnt work against us in the slightest.

ihmurria · Jun 02, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

What if guilds were just randomly slotted into one of x colours (probably six)? I mean, yes there may be some imbalancing if by chance the powerful guilds were put into the same colour section, but it should in theory be fairly evenly spread between the options. When you form your guild, you're simply told which colour you will be representing. Or when you create your character you're told, so people who aren't in guilds dont' suffer. That way one of your chars could get the benefits of having the favour, while your others don't at the time - explore with the one char until favour changes.

Perishiko ReLLiK · Jun 02, 2005, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

Yay, someone liked my idea! :P

As the games story tells, though the deities are believed to repesent the class in GW, the classes are not subject to be loyal to anyone of them or only one of them.

At character creation it would make since that the majority of players would select the diety that fits thier class. But why live with that? By the time you make it to the Temple of Ages you would see and understand the benefit of changing to something else. Thats why its important to make it avalible for players to change.

Imagine it like this:
Korea has won the favor of the god Grenth.
"OMG I love Korea" now I can farm underworld and get the great loot that only underworld could provide. Then I think to myself,...Ive done underworld, I want to do Fissure instead. I change dieties and then:
America has won the favor of the god Balthazar.
In Fissure, there are different challenges and different rewards than found in Underworld that can help and support any class.

As these annoucments are on everyones chat log. A lot of people with the selected deity would hurry to the temple of ages, finding people wouldnt be much more of a hassle. If your in a guild that likes to pve, youve all probably already centralized which deity you serve.

Heres another idea I though would help the idea kick off:
Before each match in pvp the game would roll the number of people that did a favor of the gods pve quest, and by some crazy math that would equate a + whatever moral boost.

This could help do away with that prematch wraith killing bonus quest at Tombs. While its great for a morale boost, even still if no one had to do it, everyone would still be on equal grounds, so its kind of a irritating most.

Next match, the game would roll the number of people that have recently completed it again, ...so on and so forth. Maybe these quest could be unlocked by pvp'ers getting the favor of the gods.
Now we have some synergy. Both types of players are helping each other help themselves. Its a constant, helpful, roleplaying and competitive cycle.

Of course, it would have to open up for quest in to other deities.

Think about this. If this is the way it started do you think people would be complaining, "Favor of the gods needs to be given by country not by deities."?
It would be less likely because the thought wouldnt have entered the imagination. And if you did feel this way and said something about it, you might have been recieved by: "No, its fine just the way it is"
So there will always be differances of opinon. And a lot of times, people arent comfortable with change of any kind.

In the end, I think that this would help and not hurt the game. Unless, Anet has a server infrustruture that makes this impractical. Then, oh well, thats that. Maybe something else would work,...or maybe nothing at all.
But if not, it wouldnt work against us in the slightest.

Oh wow, i guess i misread something somebody else was trying to post about your idea... the way you make it sound, that sounds like it could work, and be pretty fun... seeing how the gods are sooner or later going to all have lvls, and all have multiple lvls... so yea... it could be workable...

Goonter · Jun 02, 2005, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Actually, now that I think about it. Select a deity at character creation is pointless. Select the diety at the temple of ages. That way only pve characters need to and would benift from this. Pvp characters, it wouldnt make a differance anyhow. If a pvper is in a guild then he plays for the guilds deity. If the guild feels that pve community is supporting one god over another and they want the bonus, they take the challenge of that god (or whatever), and change thier deity. Or they can change it for someother reason. Whatever floats thier boat.

What would be important is that both pve'ers and groups that pvp couldnt instantanously switch gods. It would come at some time and with some challenge as to not cause instant shifts in both communities.

Then may be an issue with people that PUG in pvp. Not a wise group of people, but they shouldnt be left out. In such a condition...random repesentation would be fine. The randomness could be controlled by pve characters that pvp in Tombs. If a majority have a selected deity, it would increase the likelyhood of you repesenting that god.

....i dont know.... Its all still a brainstorming idea. With testing and stuff, balance would be worked out.

Ramus · Jun 02, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

I dont see how changing the name would make any difference what-so-ever. Americans would still play one deity, and korea and europe a different one. What's the point?

If you think this promotes racism i'd hate to see your take on the Olympics.

evil.E · Jun 02, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35

gotta love all the PC carebears in the world

Goonter · Jun 02, 2005, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Well, its not just changing the names. Korea could win for Grenth or for Balthazar or for Lyssa or whoever.

In fact, you cant omit the names of the countries that won at all. It could look like this:

Grenth has the favor of the gods.

Then that one guy in Lybia would be like, "Sweeet, I can go to underworld now."

I only added the names of the countries as an example of how I could like what Korea is doing for me, instead of doing against me. But, its not nesscery at all.

Icarium · Jun 02, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52

good job goonter

i like this idea,

it sounds alot more cohesive, and managable , you could even make the morale boost of whatever god somehow factored in by how many ppl following that god are online i.e. more worshipers, the more of a boost . however that would need to be minimal for any type of balance :P

The Virago · Jun 02, 2005, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

Well, its not just changing the names. Korea could win for Grenth or for Balthazar or for Lyssa or whoever.

In fact, you cant omit the names of the countries that won at all. It could look like this:

Grenth has the favor of the gods.

Then that one guy in Lybia would be like, "Sweeet, I can go to underworld now."

I only added the names of the countries as an example of how I could like what Korea is doing for me, instead of doing against me. But, its not nesscery at all.

GREAT IDEA!!!

I was ashamed of my last team in the HoH who did exactly this... I was ashamed to be there with them. I told the Korean team while waiting for resurrection that they had done an excellent job and deserved the win. I don't even know if they understood me or not, but I hope they did.

You shouldn't have to ask, 'Hey... if we lost to Korea, you're not going to make some stupid comment about dogs, are you? Because if you are, tell me now so I don't waste my time sticking around you .'

People who use this game to berate and denigrate others simply because they are from another place are, of course, only demonstrating their own ignorance and pathological issues.

@evil.E - When your temporal lobes fill in, you'll understand things much better, kid.

Poppinjay · Jun 02, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

There should be no difficulty in changing the real countries that are competing on different servers with fictional ones.

I actually liked the country idea when I first played the game---it seemed kind of like a video game olympics. But the racism has gotten way out of hand.

At least here in the States, there seem to be a lot of poor losers. I don't know if it is the same on the other servers, but my guess would be that it isn't as severe. Only the US seems to insist that we are #1 at everything, even in cases where it is incorrect.

It is also odd that racists would call another group of people who beat them inferior.

But there you go. Welcome to Bush's america.

Poppinjay

"Enough of this feaces, this is a pathetic "WAAAHHH NERF!" thread...Locked." -Principa Discordia

Burem · Jun 02, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Koreans/Asians have (sort of) developed our hatred for them. While it isn't right to be racist people do have their reasons.

There are a number of them, but the biggest is likely that they tend to play on our servers in alot of games. My personal opinion after playing alot of MMORPGs is that you should play on a server dedicated to your own language. Noone is going to force you but there is no way to make an american guild hate a european guild faster then getting beat to every spawn in a game like everquest simply because our prime time is different. In games like diablo 2 you see alot of lag because people don't respect the localized servers and play elsewhere. The list goes on and on (for instance, the pac rim guilds destroying the intire entropy server on shadowbane by baning the americans when we were all asleep).

Also, we see alot of farming from people we assume are korean because they don't speak english. It actually pays fairly well to farm and 80% of that is outsourced to asia.

Some people just can't stand the shorthand and alot of the playstyles we see from korea that seem as if they are coming from a player pressed for time (they are, alot of highschool kids play at internet cafees during lunch/free periods ect). There is an immense cultural difference in the way we play these games and it shows, it causes alot of conflict.

But now that i've blathered on and on; Personally when I see someone say something racist about koreans I simply reply "Just because they always beat you in PVP dosen't mean you have to say they eat dogs." I then go on my merry way. It's not worth getting angry over, it's not going to stop.

Changing it to diety seems like it might work but at the same time there are so many issues with implementing a system like this that it probably isn't worth it. I doubt the devs will change that as I really don't think it's high on the list of important things to deal with. Add more diverse PVP matches or make people fight for a different team? Easy choice.

evil.E · Jun 02, 2005, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Virago

GREAT IDEA!!!
@evil.E - When your temporal lobes fill in, you'll understand things much better, kid.

perhaps one day you'll grow a sack and not come off sounding like a flaccid little mama's boy.

"Oh noes my teammates insulted the Korean's... I'm so ashamed.. I must make ammends and hope that they understand I'm not like them. Oh I hope they don't hate me for this now."

I'm not saying it's right but FFS who cares? Perhaps in your petty little carebear world you imagine that making fun of them eating fido will get them so depressed and distraught that they end up killing themselves. Here's a newsflash, if they're playing an online game I highly doubt that they're so poor that they actually eat dogs. It'd be the same as me ribbing some guy from the south about eating road kill while we're both drinking coffee at Starbucks.

But I'm guessing that since this offended you so deeply that you were prolly the kid in school that ran to the teacher everytime anyone made fun of you. However in a place I like to call grown up world I highly doubt that some crap typed out by some moron over an ocean away gets little more reaction then "What an A--hole!".

Ironically that's prolly what you're saying right now. Funny how that works isn't it?